Power Kite Forum - Quick release strop

Quick release strop

martinipro - 2-12-2011 at 01:42 PM

Sorry if this has been mentioned before.

Has anyone tried using a bar link line as a strop for handles? I am thinking it could be a simple/cost effective alternate to a wichard release.

I have a PL bullet spreader bar that I think should work with this.

If anyone has tried this, I am interested in your thoughts, as well as if the length of the link line is not too long/short.
Do the connecting Velcro loops get in the way?
Does the quick release work properly?(accessible, as well as doesn't get released unintentionally).

I would be looking to use this with my Ozone pro handles as well as my flexifoil handles(not prolink).

This is what I am talking about
http://www.awindofchange.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&am...

dylanj423 - 2-12-2011 at 02:02 PM

you may be overestimating the length of that thing.... double check to make sure its as long as you would normally fly with... also, anything that is bulky and near the handle may get caught in the spreader bar when you loop the kite...

nothing like going for a quick loop and realizing your line is stuck in the bar... it just keeps the kite looping until you get out of it... been there...

one other thing... the amount of stress you will be applying to the loop connector will almost surely wear them out pretty quickly... the way they are designed is to attach to a non-moving bar, the handles will be forcing the material to move around a lot, and i dont think they were built to do it....

... but thats me being a skeptic... i have given up on my attempts with a quick release strop... i thought i was onto something, and just couldnt get it to work... best to just not rely on a safety and fly smart (says the guy that just got over an injury that put him out of commission for a month...)

indigo_wolf - 2-12-2011 at 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by martinipro
Sorry if this has been mentioned before.

Has anyone tried using a bar link line as a strop for handles? I am thinking it could be a simple/cost effective alternate to a wichard release.

I have a PL bullet spreader bar that I think should work with this.

If anyone has tried this, I am interested in your thoughts, as well as if the length of the link line is not too long/short.
Do the connecting Velcro loops get in the way?
Does the quick release work properly?(accessible, as well as doesn't get released unintentionally).

I would be looking to use this with my Ozone pro handles as well as my flexifoil handles(not prolink).

This is what I am talking about
http://www.awindofchange.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&am...

Deja Vu... it's not just for breakfast anymore. Look down the linked thread to my entry at around post #18.

The problem is that the HQ - Link Line w/safety and it's PL counter part are "D-Loops". Total length between webbing connectors is 24" which is going to be a bit short for a strop.

I thought about using the handle pass line from PL, but it didn't have a seperate SKU and the entire kit was a bit spendy for a strop.

How bad are you jonesing for something like this? I was working on something like this and had something close to workable, but was trying to source one last piece. Was trying to keep costs low and user serviceability high.

ATB,
Sam

martinipro - 2-12-2011 at 03:18 PM

Thanks for the insight!

Sam: It be really nice to have. I am yet to use the bullet spreader. I am hesitant to hook myself to the kite without having a way out.

DAKITEZ - 2-12-2011 at 04:46 PM

I tried this awhile back. The problem was it is not adjustable. Just like Sam thinks 24" is too short I think its too long. This length preference will vary from person to person. If the length is good for you it will work, but if you like a longer or shorter strop then the search continues ....

Bladerunner - 2-12-2011 at 05:27 PM

Scudley has been working on a QR for a strop. I know he came up with an excellent prototype but I forget what it looked like?
I will message him and see if he can contribute.

Scudley - 3-12-2011 at 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bladerunner
Scudley has been working on a QR for a strop. I know he came up with an excellent prototype but I forget what it looked like?
I will message him and see if he can contribute.

My QR is very similar to the release on the Ozone bar. Instead of plastic top hat to keep the pin close I use a velcro tear away strip. I will try and get a picture up shortly.
For Ozone handles you will need a small, a little longer than the pin loop of rope or webbing to fix the pin to the handle where the strop would attach.
Your velcro tear away needs to be long enough that if it rides up to the handle the pin is still held.
The pin should be attached to the handle, not the free end of the strop, to eliminate the chance of the pin snagging.

I have never had to use the release, but have tested it many times with my Reflex kites both static and in the buggy. (I stress this has only been tested with Sky Country Reflex kites. This only works with kites that collapse when only one handle is held. For some kites this could result in a death spin, so test your kite first.)
Every time I have pulled the release: the kite has immediately flagged out and collapsed; the released handle flies about 20 feet and drops to the ground; line tangle has been minimal; the other handle has remained in my hand so the kite did not blow away.
For a harness, I am using an Ozone Access XC with the "D" ring. The strop is through the "D" ring with no pulley.
For those worried about the flying handles: because our lines have so little stretch, very little strain energy is contained in the loaded line. (There is a great deal of force on the on lines, but very little distance over which it acts.) Also our handles are very light so any resulting impact should be minimal.
For a deadman switch, you could attach the tear away to a wrist cuff so that if you hand was too far from the handle, the kite is released.

Until I increased the width of the tear away, I had some unwanted releases. With wider tear aways that problem seems to be cleared up.

Good luck with it. I make no statements to the safety of this device. I simple offer the idea to those who wish to try it.
Slink to decent sized picture

lad - 3-12-2011 at 01:19 PM

I'm puttering around with the same ideal lately. Where did you get a strong, and small enough sized pin for the release?

Scudley - 3-12-2011 at 04:14 PM

I bent them myself. I got the material at crappy tire. You might try a welding shop for stainless filler rod. 1/8" is probably thick enough. Mine are definitely overkill.
S

BeamerBob - 3-12-2011 at 04:53 PM

wouldn't a cotter pin do the job? They have a loop in the end and can be bent and shaped as required.

Scudley - 3-12-2011 at 06:09 PM

The rod was $3 for a meter, about 10 pins per meter. Not sure what big cotter pins cost.

S

ApexxMonty - 3-12-2011 at 06:14 PM

Scudley, Great job in building your strop line quick release. It's obvious that you have put a lot of thought into the development of it. Is it okay if I use your ideas in building one of my own. I just knew there had to be a better mousetrap and by darn, you have done it!!!

Monty

Scudley - 3-12-2011 at 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ApexxMonty
Scudley, Great job in building your strop line quick release. It's obvious that you have put a lot of thought into the development of it. Is it okay if I use your ideas in building one of my own. I just knew there had to be a better mousetrap and by darn, you have done it!!!

Monty

Thanks Monty, I have put some thought into this. What I have not put in is the kind of testing required to prove this is safe. Nor do I have money to waste on testing or patenting something for such a small market. So fill your boots. Just don't start selling them at ridiculous mark ups. Leave that to me.
S

ps if you die using it, don't sue me.

BeamerBob - 3-12-2011 at 09:34 PM

So would the velcro tab be hard to grab if you needed to in a hurry?

indigo_wolf - 3-12-2011 at 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeamerBob
So would the velcro tab be hard to grab if you needed to in a hurry?

I expect the orange loop is to facilitate fast/panic/"oh sh|t" grabs

Winterkinds can always opt for a smal stopper ball which tends to be glove friendly.

ATB,
Sam

PistolPete - 3-12-2011 at 11:26 PM

Other Ideas: :tumble:

www.bboriginals.co.uk/Quick-Release.html

www.extremekites.com.au/gallery/members/Joel/equipment/ronstan_ozone.JPG.html

mtnmck.pbworks.com/w/page/26394531/Power%20Kite%20Quick%20Release

forum.kitecrowd.com/kite-landboarding/use-harness-handles-holy-grail-132617.html

Bladerunner - 4-12-2011 at 09:57 AM

I found that even making a cotter pin QR as short as possible it still took up a couple of inches of travel on the strop on the one side. Not the biggest issue but less than perfect.

YES Scudley really thought this one out and while I haven't tried it, I thought it was a much better set-up.

What I find interesting is that it is somebody who generally flies unhooked ( for hours ) that came up with this idea !

lad - 4-12-2011 at 09:00 PM

Just found this, sort of an update to the topic I brought up years ago...like the ideal how it can slide along.

lucky_13 - 4-12-2011 at 10:22 PM

:shocked2: @ lad wow that release looks awesome .. anyone try one .. were can we find it (u.s.)

BeamerBob - 5-12-2011 at 08:36 AM

When running a strop through my hook and working the kite while powered up pretty well, I actually felt a burn on my forearm where the hot amsteel strop touched me. The friction of the strop and hook were about the same as in teh video.

I have one of the Peter Lynn Prodigy spreader bars ordered to smooth things out.

bobalooie57 - 5-12-2011 at 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lucky_13
:shocked2: @ lad wow that release looks awesome .. anyone try one .. were can we find it (u.s.)

That looks like a standard equine panic release, used to lead horses by a short leash, if the horse gets 'finicky', you just pull the release to get away from the horse. It looks like brass, which won't rust, but I don't know what they use for a spring inside the release, or what the release under load would be like, though it would seem like it should be quite high, given the size/strength of a horse. Should be available at any tack shop or northern tractor, etc.

Prussik - 5-12-2011 at 09:32 AM

There is no need for a QR for a strop if you use the right spreader bar with a roller such as the commonly used in windsurfing "Reactor" bar. The stock roller should be replaced with a larger diameter to eliminate line drag. It should be worn spindle down - not up. This makes hooking in and out easy as well as makes for comfortable steering with one, downwind hand. The line should be without plastic cover. Emergency unhooking is as easy as a pull of steering hand in and down - one hand only is needed. This immediately rolls the line off the spindle. There is no better and more reliable QR than this. A spreader bar with a hook is not a good choice for use with handles.

Scudley - 5-12-2011 at 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Prussik
There is no need for a QR for a strop if you use the right spreader bar with a roller such as the commonly used in windsurfing "Reactor" bar.

When your already doing "the Plow" it is damned hard to unhook. It may be pretty hard to grab the release, but it won't require strength to pull it.
You can release a de-power (if not using donkey dick) from the hook in the manner you mention for strop and roller, but they still provide emergency collapse as well as emergency full release.
S

lad - 5-12-2011 at 11:13 AM

It's often mentioned that in an emergency situation, it's not so easy to pull the strop in and off a hook/pully if you are really getting OBE'd or Superman'ed!

A load of Paraskiflex stuff (and snaps) here

You can get the snaps online or at any horsey place. The sleeve still seem maybe a little harder to grasp and pull. There was a thread from a few years ago about this.

(BTW: the other prevalent off-label use for these things, according to Wiki, is with the, uh, "please-tie-me-up-set." :ticking: Probably safer than traction kiting, but I prefer to stay with my chicken Loop...My kite still doesn't understand my "safe word!") :spin:

Prussik - 6-12-2011 at 08:25 AM

There is a fundamental difference between unhooking from a pulley and from a hook. Unlike with a hook, you unhook from a pulley under tension easily with one hand instantly. And under duress it is easier to unhook with something already in your hand instead of searching for something else to pull.

lucky_13 - 6-12-2011 at 07:16 PM

thanks for the info bobalooie :smilegrin:

lucky_13 - 6-12-2011 at 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lad

(BTW: the other prevalent off-label use for these things, according to Wiki, is with the, uh, "please-tie-me-up-set." :ticking: Probably safer than traction kiting, but I prefer to stay with my chicken Loop...My kite still doesn't understand my "safe word!") :spin:

this may be the only kite related purchase that wont get you in trouble with the wife... :singing:

lad - 7-12-2011 at 11:41 AM

"this may be the only kite related purchase that wont get you in trouble with the wife.."

Especially if she's also into Medieval Recreations!:wink2:

lucky_13 - 7-12-2011 at 06:07 PM

:ticking: catapult lol id get in trouble with that .. i have a Neighbor across the street who lets his dog cr@p on my lawn and knock over my garbage every day.. :singing: i could just air mail it there lol sorry .. i just had to vent :D

lad - 7-12-2011 at 06:36 PM

Neighborhood catapult...that's nothin' compared to the problems the Mythbusters had recently with a loose cannonball! :cool:

Soma - 12-12-2011 at 01:16 PM

Wondering if it can't be done with a Highwayman's hitch?!?

One side of the strop would be tied up normaly but on the other side would have that knot maybe with a small red ball on the end???

Having a brain storm here, :D

Going to try it out on a few handles I got and then I'll tell what I came up with,

WELDNGOD - 12-12-2011 at 04:31 PM

Lad , I would never trust my life and limb to a BRASS snap shackle. See if you can find one in S.S. Bro'. :thumbup:

Scudley - 12-12-2011 at 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Soma
Wondering if it can't be done with a Highwayman's hitch?!?

One side of the strop would be tied up normaly but on the other side would have that knot maybe with a small red ball on the end???

Having a brain storm here, :D

Going to try it out on a few handles I got and then I'll tell what I came up with,

I would not count on any knot not to jamb under load.

WELDNGOD - 12-12-2011 at 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scudley

Quote:

I would not count on any knot not to jamb under load.

me neither...

lad - 12-12-2011 at 05:55 PM

I think the brass is just recommended for saltwater. I have a steel one that's still sitting around, unused.

lad - 27-12-2011 at 09:40 PM

Prussik suggested that on a reactor roller bar, "The stock roller should be replaced with a larger diameter to eliminate line drag"

- where can you find a larger substitute?

indigo_wolf - 28-12-2011 at 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lad
Prussik suggested that on a reactor roller bar, "The stock roller should be replaced with a larger diameter to eliminate line drag"

- where can you find a larger substitute?

Group buy opportunity for an aluminum pulley with bearings

Believe Danny and Rich still have a few available.

If that's too spendy... I believe different manufacturers have slightly different roller profiles and sizes so you could grab another manufactuer's and put it on the Reactor. However since, manufactors don't like sizes or specs, there would be some gopher work to suss out what would work.

ATB,
Sam

Prussik - 28-12-2011 at 10:49 AM

It is not difficult to make one yourself. One needs 1" piece of 2" UHMW rod (high density polyurethane) - for a foot of it I paid about $10 but it was many years ago. The easiest way would be to shape it on a lathe, but I used a drill stand - more work but equally good result if you take care to find exact centre to drill the centre hole to mount the thing. The groove should be not more than about 5 mm - that makes hooking and unhooking easy. Then it needs a bearing. I use a bronze sleeve pressed in. With an occasional lubrication it has lasted me many years with no noticeable wear.

The other option is to use a skateboard wheel and shape it accordingly. That will work very well too and it already has a nice bearing. I am not sure if it matches the spindle of the bar it looks pretty close.

Off the shelf pulleys often have too deep a groove to be safely usable.

lad - 24-1-2012 at 07:17 AM

And now, a word or two from the "Scorpion King"!