Power Kite Forum

Can't get moving, what am I doing wrong?

frostbite - 24-11-2010 at 05:45 PM

I found a nice spot near where I live, its pretty open and next to a lake so the wind is relatively clean. Only downside is that the grass is a bit long.

So the wind is blowing nicely today in NYC, 10mph gusting up to 20mph. I use my Hydra 3.5 which I have been flying for the past 2 month, I got a D-loop and am pretty comfortable flying hooked in now. Was hoping that I can use it to power the GI flight board I just got, but for the life of me I can't seem to get going very well.

I can't seem to maintain a continuous pull with the kite, as I fly the kite across the power zone it would generate a solid amount of power but it would quickly falls off when it fly outside of the power zone and towards the edge of the wind window. I tried doing the vertical hour glass towards the edge of the power zone and again have similar problem as the kite losses power on the upper half of the hour glass. I just can't seem to generate any power in the zone between the power zone and the edge of the wind window. Where I assume you will need to keep the kite in order to move perpendicular to the wind. Is this right?

I had this trouble in the past but I always thought that it was because there weren't enough wind. But it was blowing nicely today and I can really feel the power spike in the power zone, problem being that the power zone seems really narrow (like a 30 degree cone) and the kite don't seem to pull very much outside of it. Am I doing something wrong or is it that the Hydra is just not design for none static flying?

g-force junkie - 24-11-2010 at 06:13 PM

With the conditions you described you will be lucky if you can go straight downwind, upwind and crosswind will be nearly impossible. With no brakes on the Hydra it's hard to check the kite at the edge before it overflies, but you can manipulate the third line by pulling it in and holding under one hand on the bar to make the kite sit back in the window. Pump your tires up to max and get a bigger kite.

Kamikuza - 24-11-2010 at 06:36 PM

Dunno about the Hydra but my 3.5 Cult on hardpack dirt needs a lot of wind ... I'd say closer to 20 knots for big fun. But I am heavier than you I'd bet money on it :D

You may need to do your hour-glassing further back towards 12 o'clock at the top - say, if you're heading to the left, then your hour glass looks like leaning back 45' from 9, towards 12.
Start with the board at 45' downwind. Send the kite across the window from 1 or 2 if the wind is low. Start diving from 12 and see how you go ...
You'll have to head enough downwind to get and maintain speed, but enough across wind to keep the kite loaded - tension in the lines.

More speed in the kite and more speed in the board means more speed :D and power.

frostbite - 25-11-2010 at 10:28 AM

I didn't think I was ready for any high speed run but I thought that the 3.5 would at least get me going a bit.

I noticed in videos, most people seem to keep their kite stationary once they start to get going. Is this something you would only do with larger kite? and also where do the kite sit relative to the wind window? Does it sit in the area between the power zone and the edge of the wind window or will it have to site in the power zone?

I tried moving the kite across the window from 1 or 2 towards 10, it would power me as it cut across the power zone but it would lose power as soon as it moves out of it the zone, at which point what should I do? move it up back towards 12, down loop and up towards 11? Again, I am having trouble keeping a steady power instead of on and off...

BigMikesKites - 25-11-2010 at 11:01 AM

I think the grass is killing you the most here. Also the hydra being closed cell will have dramatically less pull than the same size open cell kite like an HQ Beamer or Peter Lynn Twister.

On a beach setting with hard pack sand near the surf, you will notice a big difference. The rolling resistance will be much less, like riding in a parking lot almost.

If you are in NYC, beaches aren't far.

Kamikuza - 25-11-2010 at 11:27 PM

ParS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-n'ride ... depends on the wind and the kite - obviously, you'll be parking sooner with bigger kites.

Depends on the kite, some sit "further forward in the window" (ie. closer to the edges away from the power zone) and some sit "back in the window". You want to keep it on the side you're going (duh! :) ) but as it goes across, it'll rush to the edge - use the brakes a touch to drop it back - so while the kite is out there away from the powerzone, you won't have the same power as you do when you're flying static and diving through the powerzone. A test I do to see if my kite is big enough is to dive from 12 o'clock gently along the edge of the window to 3 or 9 - if I can't scud, I won't be riding easily ...

Steady power will come as you move faster and can parS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-n'ride (Apparent Wind effect) but you gotta get used to working the kite ... that's just more experience! :)

Here's some bad first person footage from me and the Cult 3.5. You can see I have to work it although later on, I get parS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-n'ride for a few seconds but it was muy windy for those few seconds ... around 2:55 I do a downloop and you can see my arms stretch :lol: not the best thing to do, especially when you're unpadded! Stick to normal "working" the kite - sine-waving it ... for the time being!

cheezycheese - 26-11-2010 at 01:27 AM

Frostbite hit me up with your digits on a u2u. I have a few kites you can try. Maybe we can hook up near me one day if you don't mind a little driving... :D

matthewlavin - 26-11-2010 at 11:39 AM

Well said yamikuza. Your kite size will determine how much you are going to "work it" in the window. It wasn't until a friend of mine and i were flying together when i was first starting out. He had a 7.5 montana and i had the 12.5 on a gusty light wind day. He was able to roll much faster because he was working the smaller kite much faster. I just couldn't get the same kind of power out of the bigger 12.5 because i couldn't turn it as fast. It made me rethink things a little. Frosty, let me know next time you are going. its easier when you have another set of eyes breaking it down. AND I really want to fly.
:Ange09:

frostbite - 26-11-2010 at 11:43 AM

I am planning on heading out to Floyd Bennett Field tomorrow and the forecast looks promising/scary (its only 20mph but I am new).

Thanks for the video Kamikuza, its a bit hard to tell exactly what your kite is doing. Are you doing the sine wave by doing up loops and then down loops? Also, I don't have a brake line so I can't really slow my kite down as it speeds towards the edge. I might be able to adjust the ball stop to slow it down a bit so that it doesn't cut across the power zone so quick, right now it's so fast I barely have enough time to loop it.

And thanks for the offer cheezycheese, will def take you up on it. I flown the hydra enough to know it pretty well, and I feel like I am at a point where I am ready for larger kite. Having the chance to try them out will def help me to make up my mind on what I need to get next.

Kamikuza - 26-11-2010 at 05:21 PM

Yeah that was the problem with that video :lol: there should be one with the kite visible ... hang on ...

Huh! Haven't uploaded that one by the looks of things ...!

If it's shooting across the window, you gotta turn it back before it hits the edge - easy to do with a smaller kite ;)

Bladerunner - 26-11-2010 at 06:20 PM

Speed equals power !

If the wind speed is too light to " park and ride " your kite you must create your own " apparent wind " by flying the kite faster. You can create the apparent wind a few ways. Looping the kite, sining ~ the kite and then hopefully traveling fast enough to add wind by motion.

You were starting with your board pointing a bit downwind? Point it more downwind if the wind isn't strong. With too little wind you may ony be able to do downwind runs at 1st.

You need to find a fine balance between using the power zone to gain speed with a pump and run slightly downwind. The trick then is to KEEP TENSION ON THE LINES by flying the kite back up and edging towards upwind. Pumping the kite back down and repeating until your running speed allows you to pump the kite less or settle into a parked state.

An advanced move is to use a kite loop for that extra power / speed boost. + a Downloop on turns. Practice flying both 1st.

kteguru - 26-11-2010 at 08:24 PM

Quote:
I am planning on heading out to Floyd Bennett Field tomorrow and the forecast looks promising/scary (its only 20mph but I am new).


20+ at Floyd is more on the scary side for the inexperienced. Please don't get killed out there,,,,guys are dropping like flys lately.

Fly safe:Ange09:

matthewlavin - 27-11-2010 at 08:58 AM

Its gusting to 30mph. I would suggest short lines or maybe 1.5 or 2.0 fixed. You will need good kite control skill with a small kite in high winds. Your arms and hands will get tired quick without a harness too. They zip around pretty fast in those conditions. Wear your pads!
m

frostbite - 27-11-2010 at 03:31 PM



Well, so I finally got moving on the board but here's the result! :wee:
The wind was really blowing and the kite was super powered up and things were really exciting at FBF today The wind was gusting between 15 and 30 and it was a lot easier to get the board rolling, I probably had to worry more about stopping than anything else. I was even able to "park and ride" on a few occasions when the wind speed increases a bit.
I still have a bit of trouble riding switch (normal) and get a bit of truck wobble, maybe I need to tighten the truck some more?
Of course with speed came the inevitable fall and boy did it hurt to take a tumble on pavement. I had knee pads but forgot to wear my wrist guards so got scuff up a bit.
The kite was definitely very jumpy and needed attention constantly, I fell twice and both time were because of the kite drifted to the middle of the power zone and gave me an unexpected tug perpendicular to the board which cause me to face plant. The second time send me rolling with my feet still stuck in the binding.

Whatever the case it was FUN! I am cleaned up and ready to do it again soon! :singing:

Kamikuza - 27-11-2010 at 06:18 PM

Yah! and Doh! :lol: take care but you got bitten now so you're infected with the kiting bug :D

Stopping involves turning the board upwind. How fast you do it determines how quickly you stop or slide ... get the Progression Landboarding DVD off eBay - that'll help loads! Actually, I should probably sell mine ...

Bladerunner - 28-11-2010 at 10:19 AM

Watch yourself with that kite in such variable winds.
As you know, we fly different sized kite + depower kites for reasons.

Your kite should be sized for the GUSTS , not the prevailing winds on those days.

It is very hard to work on the " live to kite another day " approach when you only have one kite + the passion of a beginer. Believe me when I tell you that reading the conditions and knowing when to hold off is a BIG part of this game. Something we all eventually learn. Some the hard way.

Kamikuza - 28-11-2010 at 08:43 PM

Unless the gusts are sustained and regular, I see no point rigging for the hypothetical gusts ... if I'm expecting gusts (wind from the west here) I'll choose a smaller kite but I still want to go out well-powered in the average wind.

Bladerunner - 29-11-2010 at 07:34 AM

I tend to agree with what you are saying but find the line easy to remember and it makes the point.

I think if you are out with " real " gusts that are so large you would fly different kites to handle the different winds , choose the kite that will not kill you in the gusts. Or pack up and live to fly another day.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kamikuza
Unless the gusts are sustained and regular, I see no point rigging for the hypothetical gusts ... if I'm expecting gusts (wind from the west here) I'll choose a smaller kite but I still want to go out well-powered in the average wind.

frostbite - 29-11-2010 at 01:22 PM

Yes, I will definitely keep an eye on the wind speed. I have attempted to fly the kite in 30-40 mph wind before and I realized pretty quickly that it wasn't a good idea.

I actually had to use the netting on the soccer goal post to land the kite since the kite wouldn't stay put no matter what I do. Actually a nice trick I use pretty regularly now whenever I fly solo, roll up the lines and peel the kite off the fence. :tumble: One of these days I'll find some sandbag and ground stakes.

From what I have read so far lurking, I am also under the impression that different kite also has different ability to take gust? This is actually why I am looking for a PL kite since I heard that they are good for this.

Kamikuza - 29-11-2010 at 05:20 PM

You might be thinking of the arcs, frostbite re. gusts.

kteguru - 29-11-2010 at 05:30 PM



That turned out better than I though:smilegrin:
Fly safe :wee:

Kamikuza - 29-11-2010 at 05:38 PM

Bah ... I'm having problems with ALL browsers not showing some images, noticeably Facebook, Flickr etc ... I can't see your pic, kteguru

Bladerunner - 29-11-2010 at 05:47 PM

YES ,

Peter Lynn makes a few models of kite. I think of the arcs when I think of gust absorbing. I didn't find my 7.7 Twister was all that fun in gusts?

kteguru - 29-11-2010 at 05:51 PM

pic is the bloody hands that frostbite posted above.

Kamikuza - 29-11-2010 at 06:14 PM

Can't see that one either ...!

kteguru - 29-11-2010 at 06:29 PM

paste this in your browser Kami
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs578.ash2/15009...

Kamikuza - 29-11-2010 at 06:35 PM

Nope doesn't help - grey square ...!

matthewlavin - 29-11-2010 at 07:27 PM

You better stick to kiting kamikuza. :bigok:

frostbite - 30-11-2010 at 08:58 PM

Sorry to disappoint you but I don't think picture of my bloody hands were really worth all the trouble. :spin:
I won the bid on a PL charger 10m on Fleabay and is currently camping out underneath my mailbox waiting for it to arrive. It seems like the next logical step since the projected area on the 10m charger was listed as 6m, a bit less than twice the size of my hydra, couple with the depower I figure I should be able to handle it in similar condition.
Look forward to adding to my war scars :wee: