Power Kite Forum - 4 week countdown begins (safety discussion)

4 week countdown begins (safety discussion)

Todd - 22-9-2010 at 06:30 AM

As Wildwood is getting closer by the minute, what do you think of an open discussion about safety concerns? Something that would be useful to a person never being there or some that has been to the event but would like to see a change.

First topic Base Camp.

Wind direction pending of course but all general common sense applies in all base camps, safety of the riders merging onto the beach and those running at full speed. My concern is that if base camp is located in front of the Shalimar Resort, this is one of the faster sections of the beach. Safety would be paramount while trying to merge into the flow of other riders, some running at full speed.

What are some suggestions how we could accomplish this safely? Also let’s discuss some general rules of the beach like how pedestrians and pets (yes I said it) have the right of way.

cheezycheese - 22-9-2010 at 07:20 AM

Well one thing I noticed at the spring bash was the amount of kites/buggies left too close to the riding lanes. Also some folks had their chairs and stuff a little too close.
I think we would benefit from a designated docking area and chill out areas.
We have an increasing amount of traffic and I would hate to see someone hurt

cheezycheese - 22-9-2010 at 07:24 AM

I think that whatever safety protocol we decide to follow should be printed and distributed to ALL attendees kite fliers or not. This way everyone is on the same page. I volunteer to do so once some sort of list is compiled. :cool:

Todd - 22-9-2010 at 07:26 AM

Agreed on both accounts, thanks Cheezy!

bugymangp - 22-9-2010 at 09:25 AM

we can always do better on safety.
one thing thats bothers me is leaving your kite stacked out with lines 2 inches off the ground. its one thing if your only parking your kite for a few minutes to take a break or get a drink. but if your not going to go out for a while. bag up your kite and leave the lines slake.
but all and all i think we do a good job on safely issues. but like i said. we can always do better.

Maven454 - 22-9-2010 at 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cheezycheese
I think that whatever safety protocol we decide to follow should be printed and distributed to ALL attendees kite fliers or not. This way everyone is on the same page. I volunteer to do so once some sort of list is compiled. :cool:

Too many people launching, landing, and relaxing in the same area. Need to separate out the launch/landing spot and the relaxation spot. Maybe some space to static fly too.

Quote:

Originally posted by bugymangp
we can always do better on safety.
one thing thats bothers me is leaving your kite stacked out with lines 2 inches off the ground. its one thing if your only parking your kite for a few minutes to take a break or get a drink. but if your not going to go out for a while. bag up your kite and leave the lines slake.
but all and all i think we do a good job on safely issues. but like i said. we can always do better.

Too much space being taken up by staked kites that sit there all day.

ragden - 22-9-2010 at 10:15 AM

General common sense, I would think, would be to slow down when approaching small kids and animals. As for the stop/start area, if someone has some cones that can be placed down on the beach to segregate the beach, that would probably be a good idea. Then we could have clear lanes of travel, and a clear "slow start area".

The other option would be to have cones to mark it as a clear "slow area". Yes this is in the "speedy" area of the beach, but that is a bite we might just have to take...

Todd - 22-9-2010 at 10:28 AM

Great info coming in...

How does something like this look?

Orange area- for temp parking as Glen mentioned as well as long term with bag.
Red area - launch and prepare to ride
Red line - the do not cross line into the travel lane

Keep it coming, this is the stuff needed for us to stay on the beach and be welcome. This reminds me... WAVE to the people walking on the beach! This shows the sign of a friendly crowd acknowledging their presence as well.

ragden - 22-9-2010 at 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Todd
Great info coming in...

How does something like this look?

That looks workable. However, we will need something to clearly mark those areas. Cones will work for the hard sand areas, and probably up in the soft sand as well... Thats going to be a lot of cones though... Anyone have some extra?
;-)

shehatesmyhobbies - 22-9-2010 at 11:17 AM

All the input so far is some of the exact things I think of when I am out there.

I think that base camp should be a little further up on the beach, it gets real busy on the beach directly in front of base camp. As high tide approaches, it really makes for a tight spot!

Todd,right on about needing to wave , smile at the spectators, heck even stop for a minute and say hi if you need. Lots of people are interested in what we do and love to ask about it. They just don't want to walk down to base camp!
Good points by all!

Can't wait till October!!!

bugymangp - 22-9-2010 at 11:21 AM

i have a few cones. i`ll bring them.
if more people bring cones. it might be a good idea to put your name on them.

frangram - 22-9-2010 at 01:27 PM

Todd--- Just let me know what we BLOKARTER can do help make the event safer and better. I will be arriving Thur. and will set up the Blokart camp wherever you want.
I am now President of the newly formed North American Blokart Sailing Association.

I am happy to see more emphasis on Organization and Safety. We want to be able to use Wildwood's beaches every year.

Fran Gramkowski
Founder of SBBB/NABX

rocfighter - 22-9-2010 at 04:20 PM

Taking a few minutes and talking to folks is a good thing. Where I fly often people walk up to me and ask questions. It helps with safety and spreads the word of what we are doing in a good way.

kteguru - 22-9-2010 at 04:39 PM

Nice to see a discussion on safety :thumbup:

. There are times when merging into Wildwood buggy traffic is worse then getting on the expressway :smilegrin:

. I think one of the biggest things is setting up base camp closer to the buildings instead of closer to the high tide mark. I know it's less convenient than setting up near the hard packed sand but as the group grows we definately need the extra room. I have 2 safety cones in the bag that can be used. If we can decide on about how many cones we need I'll just pick up a case of them before Wildwood. Also, perhaps a small corner for loading and unloading passengers :smilegrin:

. I know I was in the way several times this past spring as more kids got on and off the buggy. Not a big deal when the wind is from the ocean but when the wind comes over the buildings now the kite is dropping right into traffic.

shehatesmyhobbies - 22-9-2010 at 04:47 PM

I also have some cones, they are a little smaller, but still visible.

Dean, that's where I was going in my post, as far as base camp being further up on the beach, just didn't explain it well at all. I also think you need a nice safety bumper to off load your cargo. What you do out there is awesome! I have not seen one person come off your buggy without a smile!

keep the ideas coming!

kteguru - 22-9-2010 at 04:52 PM

Definately agree with taking the time to wave to pedestrians as we ride by. Many people will have an unhappy expression on their face as you approach that will change to a smile and a wave if you make sure to smile and wave FIRST. Presumably their thoughts go from "hooligans terrorizing the beach" to "people flying kites". And if you stop to talk with them you can always offer my services as high speed buggy limo driver :lol:

:wee:

Todd - 22-9-2010 at 04:54 PM

Great thoughts on the cones, thanks Dean for packing some for us.

@ Fran Congratulations on President of NABSA! Anything that you guys throw out there as a helpful idea, I'm all for it. We could set up a BloKart parking area as well.

One item that Corey and I will be adding to the buggies this year is a CatEye. This is a small bullet shape high intensity LED light that can be seen from a distance. If this CatEye catches just one person from walking into the path then it will be well worth it. Luckily you can read the adults a little better than the kids of where they are headed. If in doubt SLOW DOWN.

kteguru - 22-9-2010 at 05:02 PM

Thanks SHMH :smilegrin:

. I'm glad all the kids and moms and dads have fun on the back :smilegrin:

. Maybe those of us giving rides can have a small loading/unloading zone. I know I was the cause of more than one close call as I came in to drop off/pick up more passengers. Thankfully everyone at Wildwood are all fantastic pilots.

shehatesmyhobbies - 22-9-2010 at 05:03 PM

Dean love the limo services :lol:

kteguru - 22-9-2010 at 05:07 PM

I'll have to put that on the side of the buggy "Dean's limo service" :lol:

:wee:

Get me a count on the cones Todd and I'll take care of them.

WELDNGOD - 22-9-2010 at 05:28 PM

caution tape and kite stakes to demarkate designated areas. Can be pushed down flush w/ the ground so it isn't a trip hazard.

buggydanny - 22-9-2010 at 09:54 PM

I am a firm believer in safety and think that designated use areas for us are a good thing. However, the local authorities may not like us to cone/rope off areas of the beach for our exclusive use.

I have several concerns that I think we should discuss.

What kind of relationship do we have with the authorities?

If we don't have a relationship perhaps we should consider having one. With the size of the bash growing every event it will become harder to stay under the radar.

Do you think we need a permit?

Does anyone know what it take to get one?

Is seeking a permit a place we want to go? (If they say no, it will make it difficult for the bash).

Todd - 23-9-2010 at 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by buggydanny
I am a firm believer in safety and think that designated use areas for us are a good thing. However, the local authorities may not like us to cone/rope off areas of the beach for our exclusive use.

I have several concerns that I think we should discuss.

What kind of relationship do we have with the authorities?

-------> LBJ! We have that covered nicely. U2U inbound.

Do you think we need a permit?

-------> No permit required

rdavis - 23-9-2010 at 07:16 AM

I know this may sound like common sense.... but what about the rules for passing on the beach, not just passing each other, but pedestrians as well. I know it isn't always possible, especially if the beach gets a little crowed, but we should always try to pass beach goers so they are upwind of us. If they are downwind at least try to steer far enough away so they are not underneath of the kite/lines as we pass. If you do come into a congested area, consider putting the kite near zenith and "idle" your speed as you pass through. As for passing fellow buggiers, most experienced pilots should know the rule about the downwind kite going low and the upwind kite going high, but newcomers to the sport may not know this. :thumbup:

bobalooie57 - 23-9-2010 at 07:29 AM

I find especially helpful is when someone approaching from the rear to pass(this always happens to me, am I slow or what???) calls out their intentions, like, "passing on your left". This allows me to get my kite up and out of the way, and keeps me from being surprised as they blast by. I also try to alert pedestrians when approaching from behind, "coming up on your left" (or right as the case may be)and then try to get by them as quickly as possible, so as not to slow their leisurely walk on the beach!:singing:

kteguru - 23-9-2010 at 07:50 AM

Since we're talking about safety........does anyone know if the giant pipes that go out to the ocean are covered with sand all the way to the low tide mark or are those things still sticking out?

rdavis - 23-9-2010 at 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kteguru
Since we're talking about safety........does anyone know if the giant pipes that go out to the ocean are covered with sand all the way to the low tide mark or are those things still sticking out?

Unless they managed to do some beach replenishment during season, they're probably still showing. I haven't been over since the bash though, so I couldn't really say. Maybe LBJ or somebody local can chime in. Wasn't ragden just over there?

frangram - 23-9-2010 at 08:39 AM

Roger and I organized the first Buggy event in Wildwood, in the Oct. of 1993 "WILDWOOD BEACH BUGGY BONANZA". the event drew people from as far as Wisconsin.
We contacted the city and attained permission for the event and they also gave us permission to drive onto to the beach.

At this point I think the event should look into becoming an Official Wildwood event in the future. I would not like to see it shut down during the event because of so many people buggying and blokarting on the beach. It is only going to attract more participants every year.

I Blokart on the beach all the time in Brigantine. You have to remember that people are not familar with Buggying and Blokarting. BACK OFF - CUT YOUR SPEED when approaching people, Make sure they see you and give them the right of way.
All that we need is for someone to complain about us and we could all be sent packing.

ragden - 23-9-2010 at 09:07 AM

I have to agree with Frangram. We need to be courteous to other beach goers, and it would probably be a good idea to get in with the city and get registered with them as an "official event".

As for the pipes... Yes, they are there. They have some sand on them. Some are sticking out of the sand. For some, all you can see are the pilings stick up in the sand. Most are manageable. When I was there last week, I was able to get around all of them without any troubles.

The one issue I did have was with the small trenches they were digging on the beach north of the fishing pier. They were putting little dugouts for the water to drain out of the city. These were very small, with little mounds of sand around them, as they were being dugout. Not an issue at low speed, but when I hit one at 30mph, I went flying out of my buggy... Lesson learned, if you are approaching something, you might want to slow down...

Todd - 23-9-2010 at 10:25 AM

OK. With the talk of making it an official bash with Wildwood, what are your thoughts of making it a sanctioned event with NAPKA? Both pros/cons welcome here and appreciated.

bobalooie57 - 23-9-2010 at 10:27 AM

Ha ha, I just u2u'd you with that very question? I'm all for it!:tumble:
edit:especially if we could do a mass sign-up, taking care of all necessary paperwork right there! Thanks Todd!

Chad - 23-9-2010 at 05:09 PM

If it were sanctioned and I got hurt the NAPKA insurance policy would cover my medical expense's. If someone hits a dog or god forbid another person then the insurance would cover medical and legal fees? correct..
Right now we are all on our own for making sure that we have are own coverage just in case of an accident. I would hate it if I hurt someone, this would devastate my finance's and that's not mentioning that poor other soles live and lively hood???
I dont know what it would take to be sanctioned but I would be all for it..:eureka:

shehatesmyhobbies - 23-9-2010 at 05:31 PM

I have an email in with Brad right now, I am waiting a response. Keep you posted

rocfighter - 23-9-2010 at 05:48 PM

I think this is a great idea. Is there a filing fee for santioning. I know with the AKA there is. But it is not that much per event and I know I would be happy to toss in a donation to cover some of any cost.
I do have my hobbies included in my house insurance as well. But it can't hurt.

bobalooie57 - 23-9-2010 at 09:46 PM

I think NAPKA has yearly dues, which go towards paying the Insurance? I was also thinking that being a member of NAPKA might make it easier to organize events in other locations, but I'm not sure how their by-laws read regarding non-members attending NAPKA sanctioned events. Can you imagine a NAPKA sponsored racing circuit on this side of the pond? Though I don't know of any beaches here that rival the ones in the Euro-vids!

frangram - 25-9-2010 at 04:32 AM

EVENT INSURANCE

The insurance is a policy that is designed to protect the land owner whose property the event has attained permission to use
against a lawsuit resulting from the event. It doses not cover participants personal injury. Almost all government agency's and private land owners require a minimum of $1,000,000 coverage.

buggydanny - 25-9-2010 at 07:15 AM

I feel that discussion on the bash becoming an official event should have it's on thread and not belong on the safety one. The new thread can be found here:

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=15268