Power Kite Forum

Off Road Skates 8 wheels -Terrablades

Terrablader - 3-9-2005 at 09:47 PM

Hi all,

I have been working on an 8 x 8 inch wheel skate with 4 hydraulic brakes. You clip in with a light weight alpine skiing or dowhill ski boot. So far I have been rattling down some mean terrain in Southern California.

I am thinking these skates may have some kiteskating applications. Mainly because of the good/great stablity and because of the extra support provided by the ski boots which I think might be more confortable. Not to mention you can shred downhill without a kite in them too.

additional note the four brakes can hold the skates on a 45 degree dirt slope and with the brake levers you can let your self down slowely just takes some leg strength. its cheating to the extreme but without ski edges sometimes its the easiest way.

Anyway feedback appreciated. I am possibly thinking of a smaller wheel to get a little lower down. but these do roll so sweet they really crank over everything and a smaller wheel is very hard to find (anyone know of one?) also putting a brake on a smaller wheel might be really hard.

Regards, Rich

Here is my Site I am making custom pairs right now for testers also.









this is overkill for kitboarding I am sure However... there must be times when the extra traction could come in usefull not sure. being up a bit higher than the two wheel skates might pose a problem for kitesurfing or would it. I can say besides falling I dont mind being high up. see my site. I am leaning over a bit in my movies. that is basically only needed when cruising along at 20mph+ on rough stuff. recently I stopped leaning over almost completely.

i should mention 30 minutes after the picture at the top of mammoth was taken I broke two ribs and punctured a lung. mammoth has really nasty pummace rock that looks like rock but then turns out to be sand, however seems to turn to rock again when you fall on it. I think this was an unlucky fall. but just in case I have re-armed for the next time. this is only for the steep rocky sandy stuff on the edge.

in this picture is



mountainbike body armor
hocky pants and chest/shoulder protector
motocross chest protector
asterisk knee braces

its my test setup only its for big falls on sharp pointy rocks. when in test phase , best to go max max on the gear i thinks now

anyway it makes it look clumbsy and harder than it is my movies on my site show they are pretty agile. oh, I am not sure if this is important to kite-skating but because I have 4 wheels the middle wheels are rockered and hence the skate will carve more like a skate or a ski. i love the feel of carving and such also i wanted more float more wheelbase more slide over the rough stuff so thats why i have 4 wheels each side.


www.terrablades.com

Regards..Rich

also looking for souther CA AZ NV events

Terrablader - 4-9-2005 at 12:52 AM

it would be a kick to learn this sport are there any events coming up in Souther CA or South West???
Rich

the more i think of this the more I want to try kite-skating. which kite should i buy. what would be strong enough to pull on the beach? how much is it going to cost. any chance the same kite can be used for kite-boarding on the ocean?

sorry for the long post i get too exited


doomwheels - 4-9-2005 at 02:08 AM

Hi Terrablader,
Impressive setup! But you asked for an opinion, so...

I guess the best thing about 4 wheels is great traction. On the other hand, traction has never been a problem using two 12 inch wheels. Also, 2 wheels turn easier than 4 (an issue when using skates with a wheel split of 2 ft.). Setting the boot even with the12 inch wheel axles provide just enough clearance removing the need for 2 wheels under the boot.

On the down side, there is a big difference between standing on a platform that is even with the wheel's axle rather than standing over the wheels. I get the feeling it's only the support of the ski boot preventing the skater from twisting off their ankle in an unexpected pothole etc (a lot of trust to put into a boot). Not to mention that ski boots tilt your stance slightly forward... not my pref for kite skating.

I like your wheel chassis. It looks well constructed and has a clean appearance. Boot bindings, however, are also not my pref. I'd hate to have one of those things pop while landing a jump from 12 ft at 20 mph or cruising in sudden rough terrain at 50+. I prefer my boot permanently attached to the wheels.

Also, large wheels work best for kiteskating as they cruise over bumps and holes much smoother. Small wheels drop into potholes suddenly pitching the skater's weight forward (followed by burying the skater's head into the ground).

Brakes are completely unnecessary for kiteskating.

Lastly, a tip (from a kite manufacturer through the 90's)... If you plan on selling such a product to anyone, make sure you have at LEAST 1 million in product liability insurance. Consumer liability release agreements are NOT ENOUGH to protect you if one of your customers brake 3 ribs and puncture a lung. I mean this with all due respect.

I applaud your craftsmanship and attention to detail. Don't take my comments wrong, these look well made and may possibly rock for downhill off-road skating (something I've never done). Regarding kiteskating, the only way I could give more solid advice is to try them on for size. Got an extra pair? I'm happy to help.

PS: Events...
Buggy Boogie Fall Thang
September 17 - 18, 2005
El Mirage Dry Lake
http://www.windwizard.com

NABX
Primm NV
April 2006
Ivanpah Dry Lake
http://www.nabx.net

DBBB
Nov 18 - 27, 2005
Galveston, TX
http://www.deadbirdbuggybash.com

hi

Terrablader - 4-9-2005 at 11:45 AM

Hi Bob,

I thought you was in the US? but I see a Swiss flag on your info. I think we talked on the phone way back when. Thanks for your positive feedback. I would love to get a pair of Terrablades over to you pls PM me with your phone etc.

I am wondering if actually the extra wheels though they are not as big as Doomwheels would actually because I have 4 verses two would not provide equal stabilty for kiting skating?

The boots I am using primarly are Alpine Touring boots they are half the wieght and more flexible, noepreme soles, and heals can be released for walking. They provide nearly the same support as ski boots but just so much more friendly.

So far no binding failures they are pretty secure. I am looking into new options though like releasable. Would not you want releasable? Seems may reduce knee injury??

I really like the Dynafit AT boots and bindings light light light. But expensive looking into this option on the Terrablades.

http://www.life-link.com/

Which kite would you reccomend for my setup? I want to roll up and down the beach here in San Diego. On the harder sand along the water.

Is there a reason not to go with 4 point string. sorry learning the lingo here.

Rich

www.terrablades.com

Mouse - 5-9-2005 at 07:44 AM

That's a pretty sweet looking setup chief. Hate to ask but roundabout how much you asking for a pair and is replacement hardware readily available, i have a habit of breaking things?:spin: I have a set of 14inch tires on my current pair of wheels but have been seriously considering building or buying another setup with smaller wheels and brakes for trail riding here in MN.

As far as kites go i would suggest a 3m or 4m foil to start with. If you don't mind spending some money the ozone frenzys are a really sweet kite because they fly and depower so nicely. I'm not much of a handle flyer anymore myself but i know a lotta people kite-skating are using handles so there are a lotta other options out there whether you go with handles or a bar setup.

Check out some of your local shops and see what they carry and you might even catch some good deals on a demo kite or last years model. Personally i bought my first power kite at the kite shop on the Huntington Beach pier and my second one at the kite shop at Seal Beach so you really have it nice in the fact that you have a ton of shops locally.

Good Times!

Terrablader - 5-9-2005 at 11:19 AM

Hi Mouse,

Thanks much.

The price of my skates with all four brakes is around $450 but around $350 without. I know that is steep but theres lots of materials in them being so many wheels brakes, large frame bindings and so forth. However I am working on a bigger production run.

If I can get 200 or so names together, will be able to do a run with a bit more economy of scale and price could probably be reduced. Just depends how many people tell me they will want a pair and can wait a few months till everything can be completed.

Do you ever visit San Diego? If so maybe you would like to try them out. Give me a PM or email me from your site and I will contact you.

Thanks for the advise on the kite. Should it be a 4 point? or 2 point? is that the right term. Can a 3 or 4 meter work for kite surfing too in moderate winds?

Rich

www.terrablades.com

Terrablader - 5-9-2005 at 03:49 PM

how about flexfoil bullet?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=59951...

just wondering do people use the larger surf kites for light wind with skates?

Mouse - 5-9-2005 at 08:09 PM

Hehe ok i started writing a reply to your questions but when i hit my 5th paragraph i realized this is silly hehe. Check out the search on this site and the site that really answered my questions when i started is kitemare.com

Do a little reading on that site and a search or two for more specific info. here and then ask away bro. I think that with a little research a lot more of this will make sense to you and then you'll be able to ask a lot more specific info. :thumbup:

Good Times!

doomwheels - 6-9-2005 at 02:27 AM

Personally, I use quadline foils for kiteskating. The control of foils with quad handles is much appreciated when making turns, jumps and sudden course corrections at high speed. Bar setups may leave you in a slack line situation in these events.

Which kite and what size? This is a question of preference and local wind conditions. Best thing to do is try out a few from friends or kite store demo days and see what works best for you. As mouse said, do a forum search or check the Land Kites and Gear section of this forum for a lot of info on the current popular kites.

doomwheels - 6-9-2005 at 02:38 AM

Quote:
I am wondering if actually the extra wheels though they are not as big as Doomwheels would actually because I have 4 verses two would not provide equal stabilty for kiting skating?


As I said, traction and stability have not been a prob with the 2 wheels setup (even at 50+ mph). In fact, stability has been achieved by setting the boot even (or with wheels larger then 12 inch, below) the wheel axle.

The reason for larger wheels is to deal with holes and uneven terrain. If a small wheel goes into a hole, it causes the skater to stumble forward. Big wheels float over holes (or roll through them more easily) keeping the skater on his feet. That's why ATV's have big wheels. Imagine going 4X4 with a set of Honda street tires.

If you're skating in the local soccer field, this may not be a big deal. But out on the desert dry lakes, it matters plenty.

Besides, big wheels in my experience equals speed. I've never been able to match the speed of small wheels with 12+ inch wheels.

ic

Terrablader - 6-9-2005 at 08:10 AM

Ok, thanks for the advise!

I guess I will just take a stab at it and see how it goes. I live 3 miles from the Ocean here in San Diego so getting into kite-surfing would be a blast too. I dont know why never see people out there. Maybe the wind is not consistant enough..

Rich
www.terrablades.com
Skiing year round "Let it melt"

doomwheels - 6-9-2005 at 09:39 AM

We tried to do a kitesurfing demo in San Diego at a wakeboard event back in '90 or '91. There was hardly enough wind to get out of the water for more than a minute.

Mouse - 6-9-2005 at 09:19 PM

When i hit Cali i usually spend most of my time in the Long Beach area and there is at least a 2 hour window of great wind every day early evening at quite a few of the beaches there (Seal Beach is incredible!) so you might have to do some hunting to find the right beach. Wish i was more familiar with the Diego area brah but next time i get down there i'll definately look you up.

Here's some food for thought, i know some of the Mn landboarders are really digging the Vio and Flysurfer foils because of the versatility of being able to use them on any terrain, including using them on water without them turning into a bucket when you dunk them. Peter Lynn's work well all around as well but the Vio's and Fly's don't take the setup time that the PL's do...you roll them out and fly no inflation or struts or any of that stuff. Oh well just my two penny's worth hehe.

Good Times!
Mouse

Terrablader - 7-9-2005 at 07:16 PM

is a 6 mph wind usable?

Thats whats its been about recently from the north west. This would put the kit inland and you skated south on the beach right. Hum wonder how the walkers would like that..

How about imperial county lots of desert out there. I go out allot for work.

Rich
www.terrablades.com <--- completely redesigned page now

doomwheels - 8-9-2005 at 12:13 AM

I doubt 6mph is enough for learning and even difficult for pros if on sand. If you go out to the desert often, look for a dry lake. There are several not so far from you. Check the Locations section of this forum for some good ones and be sure to make the next NABX or Buggy Boogie Fall Thang.

Terrablader - 15-9-2005 at 10:03 AM

PS: Events...
Buggy Boogie Fall Thang
September 17 - 18, 2005
El Mirage Dry Lake
http://www.windwizard.com


anyone want a ride up i might go and then hit mammoth too on my skates after. Bob wanna try mammoth i can bring a seccond pair. ill cover expenses

doomwheels - 16-9-2005 at 12:08 AM

I'd love to try. Thanks for the offer, but I won't be state-side before spring.

BBFT is a great, relaxed event on a wonderful dry lake. Lot's of helpful people there too to offer advice on kite traction. Corey (coreykite) will tell you all about it. Try to make it if you can. There's an area with MX trials, bumps and jumps... great fun on skates!

good news

Terrablader - 17-9-2005 at 06:56 PM

I chickened out on the dry lake bed trip and went to the beach.

Actually wanted to go but need to do some work before can get out of here.

I took the Terrablades out into about 15mph wind with 3.5 meter bullet kite. I found the skates road over the hard sand with about 20-40 or so pounds of force. Probably about 30 pounds on average.

The kite would pull about 25-30 pounds only when I got it in the power zone. Using about 80 foot four lines.

The good news. The skates where increadibly confortable and did not feel unatural in any way. Being up 8 inches was not a problem at all did not even notice it. The Alpine touring boots that are so good for off roading with them work great for the beach too. They are light provide great support and unclip out of bindings with ease


I think the 8 wheels may have some advantages. Possibly in regards to turning easier and having more float possibly over the sand? I can see that the two wheel design would allow for more speed on dry lakes. But I am skeptical that they would handle rough terrain better. Possibly they are calmer though at high speeds. For me 30mph down the beach will be fine.

But more drag and a bit heavy possibly for radical manuevers, even though the weight is not noticable when using them on the ground. The skates weigh about 10 pounds each side. What do the wheels of Doom wiegh?

I bought a 7.0 meter flexfoil kite for the next trip out will this be enough for these light winds? ???

How big do I have to go in 15 mph winds to get a nice little ride out of them. Maybe to match the wind say 15mph in say 15mph-20mph wind. Without having to have the kite in the power zone the whole time.


**** UPDATE ***
I got a 7.0 meter Flexfoil Bullet. Still seems too weak for 10-15mph winds... I am getting around on the beach pretty easy but need more pull... will an even bigger kite fix this picture below of today.






Thanks Rich

off road skating, anywhere.
www.terrablades.com

Mouse - 19-9-2005 at 12:03 AM

Good to hear that your setup is working well with the kite especially on the beach since it can be tough finding something that works really well in sand. I know the couple of times i've had my doomwheels in soft sand i've considered making a change to wider wheels. My doomwheels weigh 14 pounds each with my 14inch tires on them but i have used aluminum in the spacers and wherever else i can. You will notice a big difference in the larger kite in pull as well as how long you can float airs and how light of a wind you can get a good pull behind. You're making me wish i was in Cali to try some beach riding with your setup chief! :thumbup:

One thing i was kinda wondering about from your pics is that there seems to be quite a few people around you while you're kiting......hmmmmm.....have you ever seen what heavy duty kite lines can do if they clip someone under power brah? Just a thought since i've been clipped teaching my g/f and friends so i know what the lines can do and i've heard of many areas being put off-limits because of kite accidents. Keep flyin and keep us up to date on with your experiences with your skates....i know i'm curious about them. :D

Good Times!
Amos K.

Terrablader - 19-9-2005 at 07:53 AM

I have three pairs so come on down!!! hUm I knew someone would mention the people somehow.

I had to drop the kite and skate back down the beach, away from the people.

I tried for 30 minutes to go back away from the people but could not sustain that tack back out...

Either the wind was too light or the kite was too small, or the wrong wind angle but only managed to get litte 50 foot pulls. putting kit in figuer 8 s and trying to keep in power band would result in coming to a stop and then a start again, another short run. Could not sustain speed with the kite off tot he side.

I am thinking of 11 meter if its going to be 10-15 mph winds in San Diego would not that size be required for the significant drag of sand? That would be closer to kite skiing setup would think.

Rich

Mouse - 19-9-2005 at 07:56 PM

Hehe i didn't mean to rain on your parade with the comment on the people bro :smilegrin:. You have sounded like a responsible kiter so i figured you were being careful and i know from personal experience that a lot of the time as soon as a big kite goes up people just kinda seem to flock to it *LOL*.

Hey i'll take you up on the offer to try out your skates the next time i'm in Cali, they look like a lot of fun. In my experiences the larger kites and bigger wheels helped a lot for tacking upwind. Drawback is that the larger wheels aren't as nimble and the bigger kites can pick you up a whole helluva lot easier. I have a lot different terrain up here in Mn than you're dealing with on the beaches in Cali though so you'll more than likely be using a much larger kite than i normally would plus being short and stocky i only tip the scale at about 170 so it's easy to get me movin.

You mentioned you have three sets of wheels so far...do all of them have the brake setup and everything? Have you had any issues with side support with the x-country boots?
Well just a couple questions for yah and i'll let you know when i'm heading down for my next trip to see if you'll be available.

Good Times!
Amos K

yesum

Terrablader - 19-9-2005 at 11:37 PM

hi

Do you have any shots of you kitbladin out there?

As for the boots they are Alpine touring boots they look very much like ski boots not telmark or X-country. they are a bit lighter, have rubber souls for walking, and the heal can be released for walking and they are a bit lower than downhill boot but not by too much. They provide great support

For skates"
I have three pairs (two with the brakes) the other pair does not have any yet. That pair has a longer wheel base and will most likely just have one brake a bike clamp style and just be for fire-roads / speed.

I will always have a spare pair ! how would you feel about grabbin some ski poles and trying skiing off road with them too?

Next summer should have about 8 pairs done for testing. Planning on renting a house in Mammoth or Squaw and making an event of it. Maybe find some spots to Kite-blade too. 3 hours south of Mammoth is the dry lake that the spring thing and fall thing happens too.

is a video of me using a skate pusher called www.rollercycle.com taken today driving around you can see the boots kind of up close. By the way this motorized pusher is a real blast its just fun to bang around town with it. this was first time on it. and man it was really cool, its the bomb. not quite the beauty of kiteblading but definitly a good ride and good alternate use of skates.

http://www.terrablades.com/MotorTB1.wmv

Rich


side nut note:

looking in to a small jet engine option possibly to set a new speed record using a pusher such as the above. using an RC jet engine or maybe two. I probably will not be the pilot since I know nothing about speed skiing/aerodynamics that are involved. I would suppose an arm in the wrong position even could mean disaster. But its a PR stunt to possibly get my skates on the map up the road. Riplie's Believe It or Not said they would film if we build it. But right now the shows are on hold. Hey if people can kiteblade at 50mph why not 90-130mph with a customized long skate on super smooth course.

Mouse - 20-9-2005 at 11:27 PM

*chuckles* Well i haven't been on skiis much in the past 15 years or so but i'm game to give it a go next time i'm down :thumbup: I don't have any pics or vid of me killing myself on my wheels out there yet but i should have my g/f take some pics one of these times when i'm out and throw a couple out there. I just bought a flexiboard from a friend tonight so it's looking like i'll be getting ready for the snow soon here and switching over to my board from the doomwheels. Let it snow let it snow let it snow!

Good Times!
Amos K.

Terrablader - 21-9-2005 at 09:10 PM

roger that! keep me posted anytime you want to come im usually available.

learned a lesson today dont drop the kite into the water and then dont try to lauch it upside down, the kite got wacked by water and filled up with sand... when i pulled it... massive cleanup operation now.

Rich

Mouse - 22-9-2005 at 08:11 PM

Sounds like yah learned the hard way what great water-buckets most foils make hehe. I've been seriously looking at a couple of the more all-purpose foils like the vio and flysurfer because i have all the different terrains during different times of the year. Might be an option for you to consider as well if you get into the water aspects of kiting bro.

Good Times!
Amos K.

Terrablader - 22-9-2005 at 09:45 PM

Funny you should mention that I have been considering flysurfer speed!

heres my 100,000 question. How the HELL do you skate slightly up wind. No luck at all. Using 7 meter Bullet in about 10 knotts.

i got down the beach fine but had to walk 1.5 miles back hehe!

Rich

Krazzy - 20-11-2005 at 09:43 AM

Hi All:

New to this forum ...... the Flysurfer Speed will amaze you with its ability to travel upwind. The sliding bar enables the user to increase or decrease the aspect of the kite as you are traversing the wind. Simply sliding the bar toward you increases power....... sliding the bar away decreases the power of the kite and enables the user to turn slightly upwind at full speed .... which then effectively powers the kite again ....... lol ...... get my drift? and you end up travelling upwind at a fair good clip ....... as the kite approaches the edge of the window ..... reverse direction and tack back repeating the procedure.

Krazzy as ever



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