Power Kite Forum

Trying to open Washington Beaches to wind powered vehicles

fletcht - 30-12-2009 at 03:12 PM

I am meeting with the Washington State Parks Commission Board mid January. I will be asking for a lifting of the ban for wind powered vehicles on Washington beaches, or at the least extending the boundaries to include sections at all beaches up and down the coast and all times of the year.
If you have any interest in seeing Washington State Beaches open to wind powered vehicles please send me a personal e-mail in support. I am being given just 10 minutes during their scheduled Commission meeting but I would like to leave them with a stack of letters showing support, to let them know that this is not a single person issue.
Please use the subject line” Washington Beaches” in your email.

fletcht@wabroadband.com

This is the current law, which pertains to Washington Beaches. There is a permit system in place for one section of beach, which is marginal at best for buggying some years. This is also only available between mid April and Sept. 1. This was supposed to be reviewed a number of years ago but never did.
WAC 352-37-190
Excluded/limited recreation activities.
The following forms of public outdoor recreation activities or devices are prohibited on the ocean beaches unless specifically designated therefore or authorized by the director or designee as a special recreation event.

(1) Vehicles not licensed and certificated pursuant to chapters 46.12 and 46.16 RCW.
(2) Wind/sand sailers.
(3) Parasails.
(4) Hovercraft.
(5) Powered parasail.
(6) Ultra-light aircraft.
(7) Powered hang gliders.
(8) Any violation of this section is an infraction under chapter 7.84 RCW.

Thank you

fletcht@wabroadband.com

Bladerunner - 30-12-2009 at 07:15 PM

Email sent :thumbup:

jellis - 31-12-2009 at 10:50 AM

Glad to help. Wish you the best and would like to attend your meeting and listen in. I sure hope you get a resolution to Washington beach closers. If you call the local chamber of commerce in the towns on the beach and let them know about the meeting and with their help we can spend money in their town.
I will send you some documents that might help.

acampbell - 31-12-2009 at 11:21 AM

You probably already though of something like this, but I have found when dealing with authorities here and in New York that it really helps if you use the following key phrases in the first 30 seconds, as it will get their attention and get you further..

"Shared use environment"
"Public Safety"
"Ecological sensitivity"

...it just sets a good tone when you demonstrate that you have already given thought to the issues that will likely concern them the most.

Good luck

fletcht - 31-12-2009 at 02:36 PM

Thanks Jon and Angus for both suggestions. I'll look forward to the documents Jon. Angus, I've given thought to each of the three areas, now to work them into the the first 30 seconds. Good idea.

Ken, got your e-mail, thanks.

stetson05 - 4-1-2010 at 07:24 AM

when is the hearing?

fletcht - 4-1-2010 at 09:44 AM

Gabe, It's January 14th, at Millersylvania State Park, in Olympia. It is not a hearing , I am on the agenda at their regular scheduled board meeting. During the public comment time segment. They will give me 10 minutes including questions and answers. If I wasn't on the agenda, then public comment is 3 minutes. We'll see what happens from this.

heliboy50 - 5-1-2010 at 01:35 AM

Do you want the e-mails to be formatted so you can just print copies (ie. to whom it may concern..) or sent as an attachment? I love how you can run giant 4x4's and quads on the beaches here, but kite buggies etc. are a no no:mad:. Anyone here ever seen a Long Beach 4th of July? Talk about environmental impact.

stetson05 - 5-1-2010 at 08:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by heliboy50
Do you want the e-mails to be formatted so you can just print copies (ie. to whom it may concern..) or sent as an attachment? I love how you can run giant 4x4's and quads on the beaches here, but kite buggies etc. are a no no:mad:. Anyone here ever seen a Long Beach 4th of July? Talk about environmental impact.


You don't have any pictures of 4th of July at long beach do you? Might be worth showing what kind of impact they put up with vs. what impact a couple of buggies do or even a bunch do.

heliboy50 - 5-1-2010 at 02:43 PM

Picture like 6 miles of beach with more drunk a-holes and pyrotechnics than you have ever seen in your life. About every half hour you'll see a tent or an EZ-up go up in flames. It has always reminded me of the scene from "Apocalypse Now" at the bridge when nobody is in charge. I don't think I could get a hold of any pictures, if they even exist, mostly likely due to a lack of survivors. I guess part of the problem stems from the fact that Washington ocean beaches are considered part of the state highway system. So why not let us get yearly ATV tags and call it good?

fletcht - 5-1-2010 at 09:11 PM

heliboy50, either way is fine. Thanks
Getting into a we are better then they are, I don't feel is advantageous. Would like to but.....So I'll just stick to the positive qualities of wind powered activities. Hopefully they (parks) can see the difference.

heliboy50 - 5-1-2010 at 10:02 PM

Kind of what I was getting at- I mean I really wouldn't want to have to buy a tag for my buggy but if that were the qualification to ride the beaches and would sway the decision in our favor then....:dunno:

Big Earl - 6-1-2010 at 09:52 AM

Be prepared to answer the liability argument, it will surely come up. In my town in Az that is the excuse to stop anything.
Best of luck! Earl

bigkid - 6-1-2010 at 04:57 PM

I sent an email of a letter I got from the sod farm, He has put his name in the hat for you to give to the gods on Mt Olympia.....
let me know if that will help.

WELDNGOD - 6-1-2010 at 05:59 PM

What Angus said.



I had my own prob as some of you might remember, which is now solved. I went to the head dude and addressed it quickly and with foresight of their arguments. Worked for me ....... so far ( fingers now very tightly crossed ):dunno:

stetson05 - 6-1-2010 at 09:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by fletcht
Getting into a we are better then they are, I don't feel is advantageous. Would like to but.....So I'll just stick to the positive qualities of wind powered activities. Hopefully they (parks) can see the difference.


I am sure you are right. I can see where the intent could be lost on just comparing impact and not who is better. It would be tough for me to justify $50.00 bucks a year for one day a year when I can just go to Oregon, but if I kited there more often it would be totaly worth it.

heliboy50 - 6-1-2010 at 10:03 PM

I'm just over an hour from either one, but changes of scenery are nice. I figure at even 3-4 trips I just spent more on gas then a permit would cost. Somebody on the peninsula would probably jump at the chance. Just think it could be an option.

fletcht - 14-1-2010 at 04:53 PM

Status Report, met with park board this morning. They were very receptive. (sound familiar those of you who have been here before? ) I shared 1996 documents and information plus safety issues etc. Commissioners stated, to make this happen. It needs to be worked out with the SW Region Director.(He was at the meeting) I've sent off an email for follow up to three individuals whom I talked with after the meeting. I'll stay on it.
In a nut shell, it would open areas that were proposed in the 1996 Park Proposal. Areas at each of the three Beach areas, Ocean City, South Beach , and Long Beach , that are closed to vehicle traffic from April 15th to the day after labor day. I am also working to get the same areas open possibly by special permit during the off season.
I'll stay on it, and work at staying optimistic. They will hear from me weekly or so.

Bladerunner - 15-1-2010 at 06:23 AM

Good for you !
Keep up the good work and positive spirit.
Someone has to stand up to grow the sport ! :thumbup:

bigkid - 15-1-2010 at 08:30 AM

Good to hear things went well, would it help for us to send some more letters?

fletcht - 15-1-2010 at 08:19 PM

Bigkid, not at the moment. I'll give them a few days to respond to me from my email. But I don't die easily.

bigkid - 15-1-2010 at 08:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by fletcht
But I don't die easily.

Good thing, I hate going to the sod farm by myself. :smilegrin:

fletcht - 24-2-2010 at 06:46 PM

Also posted on NAPKRA

I know it is short notice but….
Washington State Parks folks would like to talk to a group of us wind powered people on Thursday evening March 4th. 6:00 PM. Meeting will be held either at the Environmental learning center at Millersylvania State Park or SW region headquarters in Olympia area. Mike Sternback, Assistant Director Operations has asked all park staff to respond if they opened up the WAC which restricts wind powered vehicles has well as other activities, what stands in the way?
He and Park staff are looking at three areas of concern or for discussion.
Stewardship
Highly Congested areas
And Regulatory issues,

The biggest area of discussion will be, should there be restrictions applied to us, if so what kind of restrictions?
How should inappropriate behavior be dealt with? Not like it was several years ago and ban the activity for all.
Should there be a “Rules of the Road” followed.?
Etc, etc

I think Parks is very committed to make changes for us. This has be mandated by the Parks Commission.
They are committed, I believe, to changing the WAC,.

The whole process will be time consuming, but one of their points was to have a interim plan while this all takes place. ( see email below from a couple of weeks back)

I hope we can get a few wind-powered enthusiasts at this meeting to represent us. (email from two weeks ago. I’ll keep you informed when meeting place is confirmed. email me if you plan to attend or want further info. fletcht@wabroadband.com

“Mr. Fletcher,

Currently we are working on multiple issues to bring back to the Parks
Commission.

1. Laying out the timeline of WAC change and process (including SEPA and
public input/meeting requirements)
2. Identifying stewardship/habitat impacts.
3. Talking to parks about on the ground operational considerations.
4. Identifying an interim plan for the 2010 season to implement asap.
5. Consider the other prohibitions in the WAC as we open it up for
change.

We will keep you up to date as we make progress on all of these fronts
and look to you for technical assistance when needed. While I realize
the issue has been out there for some time - these are the steps we need
to take to make potential changes to the WAC. The Commission has made it
clear to staff they want expedited action on this and we will be
reporting back to them regularly on progress and decision points.

Thank you, Mike Sternback

bigkid - 24-2-2010 at 07:30 PM

Sounds like a road trip, count me in.

vwbrian - 25-2-2010 at 03:45 PM

I will see if I can get time off work to attend.

vwbrian - 13-3-2010 at 05:07 PM

What happened at the meeting?

fletcht - 13-3-2010 at 10:49 PM

Sorry, I posted on NABKRA didn't think about getting back here.
4 parks staff, 5 wind powered folks, Jon, Morrie, Jeff, Steve, and myself. a lot of discussion on safety, stewardship, NAPKRA. They were, I felt, very interested in the club aspect of our sport. Giving it some credibility so to speak. I believe they are very interested in changing the current WAC, unfortunately this will a longer drawn out process , since it involves more then just wind powered. However, they are working on an interim solution that would give us access. This would be, most likely, a permit situation. They outlined sections of beach which could be available all up and down the beach. North of Ocean Shores, Twin Harbors area, and long beach peninsula. Much more then the current beach access. Parks staff presented to the commissioners this last week, I should be hearing from them this next week. I'll let people know anything new.

stetson05 - 13-3-2010 at 11:26 PM

STRONG WORK!!! Thanks so much for the effort. It is great to see "little guy" can still be heard.

fletcht - 6-5-2010 at 04:15 PM

In a nutshell, Washington State Parks is very committed to changing the current Washington Administrative Code, so wind powered vehicles would be allowed on Washington Beaches. There will most likely be restrictions but I think they are working very positively with us. Part of this change requires 3 public meetings. One for each beach area we are trying to get open. So, they have allowed by Special Activity Permit to NAPKRA organization 9 PR events 3 in each beach area. The specifics of this has been posted on the NAPKRA website, as to location and dates. These events are to educate the public about wind powered vehicles, so that someone can't use you tube videos pulled off the web to our discredit.

I fully believe, that without NAPKRA I would not have had an ear in getting this accomplished. They were very interested when they realized we were part of a larger national organization with safety rules, guidelines, and insurance. It gave us credibility. NAPKRA is more then just making racing available, and like any new organization it takes awhile for the organization to get itself organized. At one point there were over 100 member pilots registered on NAPKRA, then when it came down to paying 20 bucks for the insurance it dropped to below 50. There may be other reasons, and I don't want to get into that. But has I read about other areas being closed, or trying to open up areas, having an organization behind you carries a lot of weight with local, and state governments, as well has individual land owners.
If there are issues with the organization, work from within it to change it so that as a whole all of us have this group to help open more areas to flying, don't just walk away from it.
Having access to areas to fly, I believe, will get worse before it gets better. We need this group to help push our cause.

Ok, I'm off my soap box.

Hope to see folks on the beaches of Washington during our demo/education days. Check NAPKRA web site for locations and dates.
The beaches are still closed outside of those dates.

Thanks

acampbell - 6-5-2010 at 05:41 PM

Bravo Evans!!

I will say right here that I am one of those that did not promulgate my NAPKRA membership with the $50 or whatever but that was purely a brain fart that I will rectify, and not a judgment on NAPKRA.

We enjoy a good working relationship with GA government here but know that it is vulnerable and that the precedents you set could help if trouble comes up.

2ndWind - 21-7-2010 at 01:11 AM

Thank you for your hard work and persistence! I'm very new to all of this and trying to get educated so please forgive the very basic nature of my question:

Will the work you're doing open up Washington State beaches in general or only those you've mentioned on the central coast? I live on the peninsula where there's plenty of beaches in easy driving distance and it would be AWSOME to be able to play in my own back yard, so to speak.

Thanks again!:thumbup:

bigkid - 21-7-2010 at 02:37 AM

As of right now the beaches posted are the only 3 open to the the NAPKRA events. It is our hope that at least these 3 if not more will open up. It will be decided in a few months by Parks. Best thing to do at this time would be to join in with participating in the events that are scheduled, the more the better. Then you can meet everyone and get your questions answered on the spot.
By the way, welcome to the forum.

Bladerunner - 21-7-2010 at 06:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 2ndWind
Thank you for your hard work and persistence! I'm very new to all of this and trying to get educated so please forgive the very basic nature of my question:

Will the work you're doing open up Washington State beaches in general or only those you've mentioned on the central coast? I live on the peninsula where there's plenty of beaches in easy driving distance and it would be AWSOME to be able to play in my own back yard, so to speak.

Thanks again!:thumbup:



Join NAPKRA and try to join us at the final events. It sounds like this is worth while for you ?

I will make it to North beach late Aug. . At least I will make one event at each beach :wee:

PistolPete - 30-8-2010 at 09:19 PM

So now that all the Demos were held will there be a follow-up with WA State Parks to decide if they will open some beaches or at least continue the demos in 2011 ?

bigkid - 30-8-2010 at 10:07 PM

check your other post

Bladerunner - 31-8-2010 at 08:06 AM

Page glitch?